Curse

byteme! · Aug 05, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

@OP The build is ok. I've tried it in the past and it worked for all intent and purposes but Scythe Sins are really sexy if you want to boost your teams DPS. Wounding Strike anyone?

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 05, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I would replace IatS with EVS. That would make killing monks much easier with the knockdown. Besides, it was mentioned in the last version of this thread that it's neat to have 4 or 5 of them running around after a battle.

My Lipgloss is Cool · Aug 05, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

hex removal hurts all hex builds. one could say the same thing about a curse necro or an illusion mesmer. if they have hex removal you might want to consider bringing a cover hex, or as an a/p you could use Spear Swipe as your optional skill and give them a daze condition.

Hex Removal hurts all hex builds, but as an A/P already using your 3 PvE skills, your choices of useful cover hexes are limited. Using the casting order you seem to favor ([Pain Inverter] --> [Assassin's Promise] --> [Finish Him]) your AP is covering your less important PI. Now, as a N/ or a Me/, you have entire attribute lines that function as possible cover hexes.

You could bring Spear Swipe, but that defeats the point of running a spear as you'll have to move to melee range, and as the only one with <80 AL in the front line, the enemies will be very happy to see you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

I understand your reasoning for wanting another ursan. yes getting a knockdown chain going is nice and yes building a wall works good. But as you stated it is possible to swap out 1 ursan for an Imbagon para, so technically you can still have a good kd chain and make walls with 1 less ursan in the group.

But you can't honestly compare the single target damage done by your A/P, and the 90% party-wide DR from an imbagon. Your AP does a lot of damage, but so does a whole Ursan team. Loosing 1 damage dealer/tank (An Ursan) for 1 (higher) damage dealer/nottank (Your A/P) is an ok idea, but unneeded. It's like adding another floor to a skyscraper. Sure, it's higher, but it's already so high that it doesn't matter.
On the other hand, loosing 1 Damage dealer/tank (An Ursan) for a lower damage dealer/90% Damage reducer (Imbagon) makes the skyscraper a a bit smaller, but you couldn't knock this tower over with 8 King Kongs (Mallyxs)

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

If it helps logically you could look at this as kind of the opposite of Imbagon... while that adds a ton of defense this adds a ton of offense (which in a way is extra defense b/c you are killing so fast you have less things to hurt you)

The Imbagon adds a lot more defense to a team then you add offense, and, again, there's already so much offense in an Ursan team, it's unnecessary (Your [Finish Him]'s deep wound is on the enemy for less than a second with most of your enemies. Deep Wound is a condition that reduces the maximum health of the target by 20% (up to 100 health) as well as reducing healing they receive by 20%. FH also does 80 damage. An ursan strike does 150 damage, and things will still die so fast they won't be healed much, if at all. Assuming that the foe has over 500 health, you will do only 30 more damage than 1 ursan strike. Also, FH has the requirement of the foe being below 50% health, while US can be spammed to your hearts content, regardless of the foe's state of health.) Your entire bar is single target damage, where as Ursan Rage is AoE and KDs. While the foe is KDed (Which they would be often), they won't be dealing damage (save the occasional Ele with AoE DoTs) so your Pain Inverter is doing little. Instead of waiting for them to stand up before your damage starts again (from PI, which is the main source of your damage), you could be spamming more KDs and ursan striking.

Hell, a MS/DB spammer would be better than this. Just let the ursans run in first to soak up the scary stuff (blind/antimeleehexes) and hold agro, then jump in and AoE everything so hard that you disconnect from overloading the server with damage. With the monks not having to worry about most of the ursan's Hexes/conditions, they're free to casually watch you for blind/hexes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

I'm glad you think its fun (kind of the point of playing games) and I'm glad you see that it works. As far as best choice, thats an opinion, opinions can't be proven right or wrong. But the substance in question can be tested, and who knows, after given time and maybe testing with different variations this might become the new imbagon or something even better.

Bolded the important phrase. Almost everything said on this thread, is someone's opinion. I believe the build is fun, but not the best. You believe that this is an amazing build. Some opinions are more based on facts than others, but that doesn't make them any less opinion-y.

Also, the point of playing a game is fun, yes. The point of farming however, is to make money to be used on something you will later have fun with. Farming CAN be fun, but that isn't the point. If you want to enjoy your farming, this is a good build. If you want the most efficient farming, this is not your best option.

Edit; Fix'd spelling errors. Also, what is EVS, Kaida?

Kaida the Heartless · Aug 06, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

TYPO'D.

Pocket Assassin! (Ebon Vanguard Assassin)

Oh man I thought that skill was amazing when it first came out. Then I found "YMLaD". I think EVA is better for this build though.

X Ninja Sasuke X · Aug 06, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

TYPO'D.

Pocket Assassin! (Ebon Vanguard Assassin)

Oh man I thought that skill was amazing when it first came out. Then I found "YMLaD". I think EVA is better for this build though.

i believe it was posted in the original thread that i am unstoppable could be an optional pve only skill and could be replaced by ymlad or evas. but yes having a bunch of little sins running around is amazing.

Ben-A-BoO · Aug 07, 2008, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Heya,
First off: thanks for sharing again.
The thread and discussion is a much better read then the old one. Good choice to reopen.

I got some question and critical remarks concerning your build.

- I see the value of this build in a H/H setting (as I am myself looking for a effective Promise build for my Sins Discord team). But I just can't see where this would be a significant aid 8 man team (beside having fun that is

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

this might become the new imbagon or something even better.

Imbagon = Patywide invincibility vs Promise Spearchucker = Single Target DPS

So here are some questions:
- Assassin's Promise and PvE only skills can be utilized by any profession. What would make a sin primary more desirable then other professions?

- If you main goal is to combine spear DPS with pve-only skills why did you choose [[I am the strongest] over [[critical agility]?
Would also counter the low armor remarks you heard before.

- Why did you spec that high in deadly arts? Wouldn't it be more desirable to utilize the sin primary by specing high in critical strikes? Break points energywise are 8 or 13. So wouldn't 13 crit and 10 deadly arts boost your DPS higher?

- The gear you proposed looks the least optimal for me. Furious adds by far the least to DPS in general, especially with only one adrenaline skill in your bar. Vampiric is the king or if you are to lazy to swap sets, sundering. Same for the shield mod (-5/20%), probably the worst one can get. Vs. Blind is usually the default set and of course +10 AL vs damage type (vs. Demon in DoA).

P.s. Your build is faster to grasp if you post your build in GWBBC code
[build prof=A/P name="Promise Sin Returns" deadly=11+1+1 crit=9+1 spear=10][Spear of Lightning][Blazing Spear][Finish Him][Pain Inverter][Assassins Promise][I am the strongest][Way of the Master][optional][/build]

Have Fun

X Ninja Sasuke X · Aug 08, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Heya,
First off: thanks for sharing again.
The thread and discussion is a much better read then the old one. Good choice to reopen.

your welcome

Quote:

Assassin's Promise and PvE only skills can be utilized by any profession. What would make a sin primary more desirable then other professions?

I'm well aware that other professions can utilize assassins promise too, the main being the promise nuker, but mes and necro have their tricks as well. In fact rits have often used ap to recharge their spirits too. The point of the post was 2 fold...1st to help assassins be strong but stay safe. While most experienced sins use mobius and are familiar with how to keep themselves safe, with skills like critical agility and/or critical defense at their desposal, a lot of sins, especially newer ones, still die often and aren't used to the profession yet, so being ranged helps them stay alive yet still remain effective. The 2nd purpose was to help sins find a permanent spot in elite farming areas, especially since before ursan blessing came along one had to be an ob flesh tank, a nuker, a necro, a ranger with spirits, or a monk to get into doa. This really hurt professions like sins, mesmers, rits, paras, and dervs as far as doing elite farming areas. With this build and video I not only proved sins could hold their own while not being ursan, but also be an asset to the team.

Now with todays update ursan has been nerfed, so logically if the build was good enough to be ran alongside ursan, it will be good enough to be ran while it is gone.

Now to answer your question on why sins vs other professions... yes other professions can use it just as well, I just hope this build helps sins get into groups, especially in elite farming areas, since they are often ignored here. Also sins have critical strikes so can keep the energy high pretty easily just like necros have soul reaping to help with their energy management, and recently I've been shown builds where people took deadly art skills as their attack skills and the beauty of the deadly arts is they aren't physical attacks usually so it can be played as a caster and suddenly the sin doesn't have to worry about blindness.

Quote:

If you main goal is to combine spear DPS with pve-only skills why did you choose "I Am The Strongest!"over Critical Agility?
Would also counter the low armor remarks you heard before.

that is a good point, i would have to test critical agility to see how effective it is here. I think my main reason was with Critical Eye and Way of the Master I felt like I didn't need the extra critical hit skill, and while the armor is nice it got overlooked into consideration.

Also I believe part of my reasoning was I am the strongest stays on, so it helps with energy management. You can cast it way before a battle, or just after one, and suddenly you have all that dead time for your energy to regain but it maintains itself till used up. Finally in elite farming areas sometimes they are enchantment removal heavy, which is where I was mostly testing this, so that could come back and hurt you.

So those are my reasons, but you made a good point and I'd like to test it in there, who knows may make room to take out one of the other critical boost moves and add a rez or something else. So thanks for the suggestion.

Quote:

- Why did you spec that high in deadly arts? Wouldn't it be more desirable to utilize the sin primary by specing high in critical strikes? Break points energywise are 8 or 13. So wouldn't 13 crit and 10 deadly arts boost your DPS higher?

you are right. I think my reasoning was the higher the critical the few more seconds ap would last, and since ap was essential to the build i gave it priority. But after looking at this response I probably should re-arrange the specs to what you mentioned, b/c the higher dps would balance out the very few minus second duration.

Quote:

- The gear you proposed looks the least optimal for me. Furious adds by far the least to DPS in general, especially with only one adrenaline skill in your bar. Vampiric is the king or if you are to lazy to swap sets, sundering. Same for the shield mod (-5/20%), probably the worst one can get. Vs. Blind is usually the default set and of course +10 AL vs damage type (vs. Demon in DoA).

Yeah, I've been wondering about the furious myself... I think the main thing was for energy reasons I liked having a adrenaline skill in there, but I quickly noticed that with a higher energy set armor it became a non issue, so there is probably a lot of room for improvement here.

the shield mods sound like a good idea. seeing how my main is a sin I'm not to familiar with shield mods since they are normally used by warriors and paras. Would the vs demon count on all the enemies in doa? I know it would say against margonite, but vs say titans too?

Quote:

P.s. Your build is faster to grasp if you post your build in GWBBC code

Assassin / Paragon
11 + 1 + 1 Deadly Arts
9 + 1 Critical Strikes
10 Spear Mastery
You have an additional 10% chance to critical hit. Whenever you critical hit, you get 2 Energy.

[Copy [Promise Sin Returns;Owlj4tjZpSPYKYxkylLQzkLiAAA]]

Nightfall Spear of Lightning

* 6
* 5

Spear Attack. If this attack hits, it deals +16 lightning damage. This attack has 25% armor penetration. (Attrib: 10 Spear Mastery)

Nightfall Blazing Spear

* 7

Spear Attack. If this attack hits, it deals +18 damage and sets target foe on Fire for 2 seconds. (Attrib: 10 Spear Mastery)

EotN
PvE only "Finish Him!"

* 15
* 10

Shout. If target foe has less than 50% Health, that foe takes 20..80 damage and suffers from Cracked Armor and a Deep Wound for 5..20 seconds. (Attrib: Norn rank)

EotN
PvE only Pain Inverter

* 20
* 1
* 10

Hex Spell. For 6..10 seconds, every time target foe deals damage that foe takes 80..140% of the damage it causes (maximum 80 damage). (Attrib: Asura rank)

Factions Assassin's Promise

* 45
* ¾
* 5

Elite Hex Spell. For 14 seconds, if target foe dies, you gain 18 Energy and all your skills are recharged. (Attrib: 13 Deadly Arts)

EotN
PvE only "I Am The Strongest!"

* 20
* 5

Shout. Your next 4..8 attacks do an additional +10..20 damage. (Attrib: Norn rank)

EotN Way of the Master

* 30
* ¼
* 5

Enchantment Spell. For 60 seconds, while holding a non-dagger weapon, you have an additional 23% chance to land a critical hit. (Attrib: 10 Critical Strikes)

Promise Sin

yes it is. obviously i'm new to guru and that code. so thanks for the help.

Quote:

Have Fun

thanks for all the help and constructive criticism and ideas.

***also I want to point out thanks to the buffs to the PVE only skills on todays update...this build just got a lot better for those who don't have their titles maxed. So while the max damage maybe the same the lowest tier is a lot more, so those with low titles can still run it and it will be a lot stronger than it was before the update.

PvE only Pain Inverter

Hex Spell. For 6..10 seconds, every time target foe deals damage that foe takes 80..140% of the damage it causes (maximum 80 damage). (Attrib: Asura rank)

changed to

Pain Inverter: increased damage bonus to 100..140%.

PvE only "Finish Him!"

Shout. If target foe has less than 50% Health, that foe takes 20..80 damage and suffers from Cracked Armor and a Deep Wound for 5..20 seconds. (Attrib: Norn rank)

changed to...

"Finish Him!": increased damage to 44..80; increased duration to 12..20

as you can see, suddenly this will help boost the power of this build for those with a lower level in their respective titles. So thats good, I feel this update will only help newer players and this build should work effectively even for those who haven't maxed asuran or norn yet.

Jo Po · Aug 10, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

I am the monk you see in the FoW vid and i can tell you that this build is awesome, we were going real fast and didnt have that many problems (but you cant really have any when you you Ursan ofcourse :P)

*so i dont get flamed, that Ursan thing is a joke, id rather have 5 of these + an imbagon(since armor is a bit of a prob for sins) than ursans any day*

another great sin build Ninja

FoxBat · Aug 10, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

AP - PI - Finish Him! is the awesomeness. The rest is just OK. Overall mes/nec have it better. Still on a Discord hero team, your main job is just to lead the heroes with hex/condi application, the rest is just icing.

X Ninja Sasuke X · Aug 11, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

thanks for all the posts everyone.

Accursed · Aug 11, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

This build looks awesome. I'll have to try it out some time soon, hopefully today. Good job Sasuke.

Ben-A-BoO · Aug 26, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

your welcome
The 2nd purpose was to help sins find a permanent spot in elite farming areas...

Just stumbled upon this again and well surprise, surprise I have to tell ya that Sins have found a permanent spot on the frontline, at least with friends and allied guilds with whom I do DoA these days.

DoA Hero Way

Crit scythe sins are DPS Monsters and while this is not the fastest way to do a full run (~2hours NM), it is easy to set up and hard to screw up. We still play around with almost all of the the builds but the basic Idea is steady, as is the crit scythe sin. Thanks again dark_slayer.

One other minor note:

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

Now with todays update ursan has been nerfed, so logically if the build was good enough to be ran alongside ursan, it will be good enough to be ran while it is gone.

By all respect but that logic is flawed. Ursan had it's own set of rules and was ridiculous damage + shutdown and easy to pug. Just because one build did play well along side them does not give it a free ticket to any other team build. Especially since post-ursan builds won't have as much freedom in choosing your own roll (lol that is if you were not ursan of course) ... much more team coordination (player skill and team build) is needed to be effective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ninja Sasuke X

I know it would say against margonite, but vs say titans too?

And yes, not all but enough foes in DoA are considered Demons to take a vs. Demons shield as primary set over every other one ...
Demon

In the end: This build can be good fun, but the only effective spot I could find for it is in a Hero/Hench setting running a discord team.

mazza558 · Sep 02, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

How about [Asuran Scan] instead of ["I am the Strongest!"]?

It means you have a cover hex/bait for AP, and you probably get more damage out of it.

Ryu_ookami · Sep 10, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

with [way of the master] isn't it better to have a 15^enchant?

so use spear of the forgotten

Ben-A-BoO · Sep 10, 2008, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryu_ookami

so use spear of the forgotten

And learn how to weapon swap.
Yes, [[asuran scan] is better on single target builds.

Turbobusa · Sep 10, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazza558

How about [Asuran Scan] instead of ["I am the Strongest!"]?

It means you have a cover hex/bait for AP, and you probably get more damage out of it.

If you're going to use it, little tip:
Use a spear attack first and as your character starts to throw it, use asura scan. If done well the aftercast is unsignificant

legacyofkain85 · Sep 10, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

critical agillity for the optional skill ,imo

Grim Aragorn · Sep 23, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

ive been playing around with this build and i am just destroying stuff, its a really fun build, ive added Signet of Toxic Shock, in coordination with my jagged death nova bomber its nice extra dmg.

thanks for build i love it =)

XbarryX · Sep 30, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Im surprised no one has caught this, especially since everyone has said they will try it out immediatly, but you can only have 3 pve skills active at once, which rules out critical agility(best choice IMO) as well as teh OP's claim that many EVA's were running around. Guess no one did the research on this build, but to fix it i would drop I am the strongest for Critical agility, and as much as EVA would be awesome, something else is going to have to fill the empty spot.

Super Igor · Oct 03, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

GG on showing everyone a video of how much you swayd and ursanned.